However, well assume thats not always possible. Use any surrounding trees or rocks as landmarks and carve fake initials into them so you can remember years later where your stash is. If you choose to bury food and water at one location, and weapons and ammo at another ten miles away, you may have difficulty recovering the full set of supplies. Landmarks like trees, rocks, and buildings change over time. Furthermore, you have to know where to look, and its rare to find it randomly. The closer your container is to the surface the more likely it is to be accidentally discovered or inadvertently revealed by activity or weather. A more remote burial site can afford you some flexibility if you are caught away from your home or if the area all around your home is unsafe or otherwise inaccessible, but it is much harder to keep an eye on. It is a pleasant thought, but you likely have not given much serious thought to burying your own cash for safekeeping. A Jasni Stainless Steel Time Capsule is a clever way to bury money. Whether its a runoff ditch, a garden bed, space for a sidewalk, paving stones, or pulling out an old tree stump, these are the right times to bury money. A unique black container like the MTM SAC Survivor Can from Amazon looks much less like a stash container than most. A scavenger will have as good an eye as you for a concealment site, so keep this in mind when picking one. That's 400 total uses for these dirt-cheap little items! and once you are sure everything fits, attach the other end cap. Obtain the following before you begin: Once you have all of this, you are ready to get started. You can use rubber bands, steal some hair ties from your significant other (or just use your own, ladies) or use paper money bands for the purpose. If you are nearby this can afford you the opportunity to defend your treasure. Step 2 Set the money-filled zip-top bag inside an airtight canister. At eleven inches, by seven, by four, you can stash a lot of cash inside easily. Prod around with a rod or stake before digging to check rocks and other obstructions just below the surface. Burying cash is not just for pirates; preppers can make good use of this ancient method of secretly and securely stashing money to serve as a hedge against loss when all other methods fail. To "cache" your goods, you need 6-8 inch plastic plumbing pipe, cut about 20-60 inches long, threaded on the ends. The best method for burying money underground is to seal it in a zip-lock bag that has had the air vacuumed out of it. A cache contains the survival essentials: materials for building a shelter, water, medical supplies, tools for starting a fire and basic foods. Will there be snowfall or ice? Bury the container. There was ever more strident talk of banning semi-automatic . Secure each stack with a rubber band to hold it in place. Draw a partial map to your buried money for your own memory and keep it in a safe deposit box. Delivered, of course, by people who now know you have a safe. The instructions should include a Final Reference Point (RFP) that is: a) identifiable by an exact IRP, b) a permanent object that will not vanish as long as the cache is in use, c) is not near the cache so as to be easily found by anyone with linear measurements, and d) related to the IRP by a simple route description from IRP to FRP. Then, identify an immediate reference point (IRP) that is an observable and distinct landmark. Water temperature, clarity and saltiness are also important factors to consider. If moisture seeps in, your valuables dont stand a chance unless properly sealed, especially if stashed for long periods of time. A location that is closer to your house, say in your backyard or somewhere on a larger parcel of land that you own, will enable you to get to your cash quicker assuming you are at home when you need to access it. Pay attention to ground cover and vegetation near the dig site. You could even bury hundreds of little pieces of metal washers and lug nuts around the area a few inches or feet underground to throw off any snoop with a metal detector, who may have reason to suspect you're burying gold or other valuables made our of metal in your backyard. In today's article I will be sharing with you the advantages of burying money for safekeeping, simple steps for pulling it off successfully, and some pitfalls to avoid. For most purposes some of the best places to hide money, cash or valuables is in a home security safe. Otherwise, its trespassing. This site is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Silence is golden. Then place it in a small waterproof steel box and bury the box. If you cannot grab the actual mooring, then you should connect a line from a permanent object on the shore to the cache box. The smaller caches are easier to hide than one large cache. Caching is the art of hiding your preps and equipment in secure storage spaces so that you can dig them up when you need them later. Your ammunition, paperwork and firearms can become soaked over the years. Prod around with a rod or stake before digging to check rocks and other obstructions just below the surface. By signing up you are agreeing to receive emails according to our privacy policy. What is the best way to bury money in the ground? Even safety deposit boxes are not immune. Naturally, the other vital issue where buried money is concerned is remembering where you put it. It should not have extra pieces that rattle and clank when you handle it. This is only foolproof if the marker is left undisturbed and repainted every six months. The second step is to dig the actual hole, on how deep it should be will depend on the type of soil in which you are digging. Now that you have your money in vacuum-sealed bags, and in PVC pipes it is time to add another layer of protection, place the PVC pipes into heavy-duty garbage bags. Also, should the situation arise where you need to verbally convey to someone where your package is so that they might retrieve it (i.e. Priority one when burying our cash, aside from keeping a precise track of its location of course, is to prevent water from reaching it. Pick a spot that has no ties to you or your family, friends, accomplices, etc. Before we start digging, it's important to sand the weeder tool's tip so it won't damage the wires. Put the coins in a heavy (non-PVC) plastic bag, with plenty of silica gel (no direct contact). Erasing your footprints in the snow near your site is virtually impossible you can only hope to use the weather. With that done, insert your stacks of cash into the vacuum bags without overcrowding them. On the other hand, there are some people who bury their money in a remote location, both ideas are good but it depends on what works best for you. Often, the simplest, most non-descript disguises are the most effective. As a general rule, you should dig your hole in an area which is far away from trees. Dull the tip of the weeder tool. While this is a good idea, but if you are planning to bury money then you have to be extra careful. Portland has rain about more than half the year, and we are continuing to have a rainy spring. If you are burying gold, and metal detectors are a worry to you, consider burying your cache tubes near a metal fence post, or other similar innocent looking structure. Method 2: How to Bury Treasure in a Mason Jar For those who don't want to bother with the messiness of pine tar and need an easier option to bury treasure in a water-proof container, consider using a mason jar. Erasing your movements in a leafy area is easier if you use a branch to swish the leaves back into place after you have been busy, as in covering tracks in a sandy area. Dont let the unusual name fool you. Learn more Do you want your valuables to be safe? Some people also place pesticides and herbicides in the plastic container, if you have a big problem with weeds and with other pests then you should add some. Then you can do as the pirates did, and bury it underground! After serious consideration, you can bury money in any-old well-sealed plastic containers. Insert your package into the wooden box and repeat the garbage bag/tape job two times for good measure. This keeps you from having all your nest eggs in one proverbial basket. The art of caching requires stealth, savviness, and a keen awareness of your environment. Bury your cache within a 50m sight line to avoid errors. All tip submissions are carefully reviewed before being published. However, if you want to do this DIY project the old-fashioned way, get your hands on a shovel blade or an edging tool. Before you choose a site, survey the area and get to know the practices and customs of the locals you dont want to find that your site is on the local hunting grounds, or land, or tracks they often follow. ( Top 7 Reasons ).if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'preppingplanet_com-leader-2','ezslot_6',633,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-preppingplanet_com-leader-2-0'); It is extremely easy to spot a place where somebody has been digging, usually, the dirt will be disturbed and plants will not grow on it for some time. Most metal detectors can only reach some 12 feet underground to find a 3/4 inch pipe. From burying downspouts to catch basins and pop-ups, we have you covered on all of your yard drainage needs. Your stash will remain dry, even after fully saturated with water vapor. In thirds, fill the hole with dirt, step into it and compress the dirt with your feet (so as to avoid a sinkhole in the following weeks), and use the pepper/mace spray. Dont hide them in a basement because in the event of an earthquake or tornado the house may be reduced to rubble and then access is going to be very difficult, if not impossible. Unlike a bank box, the hours of access are unlimited. You can bury money without deteriorating by sealing it in a Ziploc bag and then placing it in a much bigger one before placing it inside a good sized steel safe and then burying it inside a concrete vault. Always assume that roving eyes are watching you at all times. Please be aware; its best to bury your money at least five feet deep. Separate caches should each have all the items youll need for an extended period. 3)Animals might damage it, I'm not kidding. However, for individual bars or valuable coins, I recommend a harder plastic case that fits tightly. Get yours form an Amazon original when you click here. If you are burying your cash at a remote location that is in any way frequented by other people- hikers, campers, birdwatchers, etc. Although the direct burial ethernet cable is enough to bury and run without any conduit, a conduit provides extra protection. Note: Do not insert desiccant pack into vacuum bag with cash- it will accumulate moisture which can damage your money! SportDOG Brand In-Ground Fence - Premium Choice. Its fine, easy to dig and drains pretty well. How you go about ensuring opsec is up to you. If wikiHow has helped you, please consider a small contribution to support us in helping more readers like you. You are here: michael hobbes instagram / american idol season 10 top 24 / best way to bury money underground Take a cooler and put a one inch barrier of spray foam insulation on the bottom, then put your bags/bricks of money in the cooler; leaving a one inch gap on each side. The best caches are easily recovered by the owner, but virtually impossible for anyone else to find. Remove the vacuum hose and seal up the opening. For this reason picking the right container. Time to dig! This is only as correct as calling him the King of London or King of Hull; he is the . Higher-end safes are available and range in price from under $1,000 to many thousands. Preppers use a number of landmarks for this, including mile markers on low-traveled roads, war memorials, geodetic survey markers, telephone poles, cemetery headstones, small bridges and boundary markers. For extra safety, you should glue the PVC lids onto the pipes, this way no water should leak inside. This works well in clear water, where the bed is smooth enough for the cache to be dragged along it. Even today after thousands of years people are still finding buried money, and as technology progresses it is becoming easier to find buried money. Do not take any chances! Places where you can hide your preps include: Consider soil type if youre burying a cache. Plus, it adds an extra layer of sealant between the air and your money. An experienced tracker will be able to pick up your tracks though. enterrar objetos valiosos para mantenerlos seguros. With some smart materials selection, even a metal detector will be of no use in locating your money. Cash is a vital contingency prep, able to get you much needed supplies or just a favor when you are in a tight spot when nothing else can. Caching has two distinct stages: ingress and egress. Suck all the air you can out of the plastic bag. Your email address will not be published. Burying paper currency needs to be done carefully to prevent damage such as crisping or mildew build-up. Paper money will eventually succumb to moisture, mold and mildew. Now it is time to assemble and prep the PVC container we will actually bury. Why? If you move ground cover aside to dig scatter the same type of ground cover over your dig site. Simply cut the pipe to size and seal one end with epoxy resin and a rubber endcap. Believe it or not, your hole can have style horizontal or vertical. Repeat until the hole is full. No matter where you decide to bury it, try to ensure that it is off any known trail or path that is frequented by people or animals, since erosion and activity will be more likely to reveal it. Of course, youcant simply submerge a cache in any body of water. Experts Reliable Opinion, It is a myth that you cannot legally bury your money, MTM Survivor Dry Box with O-Ring Seal from Amazon. If you're looking for downspout installation in Michigan, call: 248-505-3065. If you do not own the actual plot of land then you probably shouldnt bury your money there, who knows who owns the plot of land and you might wake up one day and see that there is a construction crew working at the location. Don't pick an obvious spot. Roll some elastic bands around them as well to help your goods fit into the tube. I will never SPAM you. You wont need to worry about accidentally breaking this metal case as you retrieve your property. In addition to this, you should also place the zip . Create a map, notes, or even record exact GPS coordinates of where you buried the cash. FoodSaver Vacuum Bags and Pelican cases, highly versatile and waterproof, are pricey. The cavity under the dash also makes a reliable hiding place. Inspect the vegetation for signs of recent movement. 5) Burying in yard. But thats not a problem for you since you have your safe correctly anchored, bolted securely to the structural members of the home, right? Youll want to use airtight plastic seals either way. Depending on how much money you want to bury, you will have to use a vacuum sealer. If you can save some of the silica gel packets from inside vitamin bottles, they will combat mould, moisture and mildew. Thus, you know your money will be safe even if your great-grandchildren are the first to unearth it. Moreover, you can rest easy knowing your cash is buried in an anti-corrosion, high-quality stainless steel tube. Anyone who finds it will be tricked into thinking thats all there is. This keeps you. You have your cash prepped, the container ready for burying, the location selected and your route to and from the burial site mapped. Choose a sturdy container, and nothing will ever disturb your cash stash. Thank you, and not everyone in Portland is a brainwashed leftest. By using our site, you agree to our. This container used for storing flares on a boat could be useful, although pick the green rather than the neon orange color so it is not as easily spotted. Place your container in the hole, fill it back in and rejoice: you are almost done! That is a fine idea, and many people do. By adding these, you can both preserve the bills and help keep them from deteriorating in case of a minor leak. If the neighbors all know you dug a hole under your tree out back and put a treasure chest there, then they can always retrieve your cash. Include a description, such as the Catholic Church with the red-brick steeple. Unlike blowing a safe, unburying money takes a long time. Generally speaking, you should dig a hole which is 5 ft deep, you might think that this is deep but the deeper your money is buried the safer it will be. Wrap the plastic around the square multiple times to ensure it will be protected against moisture. Experts Weigh in and Speak Out. Safes are far from indestructible and can be compromised by an intruder. The Top Bartering Skills to Have Post-Collapse. We are compensated for referring traffic and business to Amazon and other companies linked to on this site. The Covenant Case can take the pressure. In rocky or uneven ground, a horizontal (shallow) hole is better. Plus, a hinged lid with a loving clasp makes it easy to identify when you dig it up. Such a site might be just as attractive to a local in the area who may stumble across your cache by accident while hiding his own stash. I am planning on putting the buckets in durable plastic bags with moisture packets in them and burying them. Whoops, except the ATM has already been drained of its meager funds, or broken into, or has no power, or is missing entirely, ripped off by opportunistic crooks taking advantage of the larger situation as a cover for their nefarious deeds. 8-10 PVC pipe can be used to make custom fit capsules to bury your guns underground. To create this article, 22 people, some anonymous, worked to edit and improve it over time. Or bury your real cache three feet underground, and then slip the decoy on top covered by some roots and foliage. You now have a watertight, structurally solid package that will last many years under the earth! Using a highly accurate GPS to note your exact treasure burial location is a great way to keep track. If you'd like to further seal the canister, wrap duct tape around it. wikiHow is a wiki, similar to Wikipedia, which means that many of our articles are co-written by multiple authors. It would not do at this stage to have some inquisitive person, especially one who is alert to signs of human passage, pick up your trail or notice the conspicuously disturbed surroundings and start some investigation. Plus, beyond a little physical labor, its relatively easy as well. Get a posthole digger and dig some holes in a location of your choice about 5-6 feet deep. 1)Cash, over the long-run, is surely to depreciate due inflation. First, you need to understand that the paper in US bills isnt made from wood like most writing papers and books. Choose a burial location. More importantly, paper money requires extra steps to preserve. Dip the vacuum-sealed packages in melted wax. Burying documents like birth certificates, real estate deeds and passports are at risk of decay, unless you have them heat sealed into bags, together with some desiccant. A beach might not be the best idea as sand is moved to and fro on a daily basis. For a 12-in.-deep trench, you can direct-bury GFCI-protected underground feeder cable with a short . 1) Wire Depth Options. Wheareas an investment in bonds or bank deposits usually have a interest rate paid that will help it to keep up with inflation. Silver will tarnish, but gold does not. Find a good location where to bury the money, Leave no signs of digging where you have buried the money, Place the money into PVC pipes to bury it, Use heavy-duty garbage bags to bury the money, Use a plastic container to bury the money. Bear in mind that landmarks change over time. Installation of power line in the underground. Know how to manage low tides that could expose your cache or increased depths that might crush it. Once this is accomplished, take the time to sand, file and clean up the edges; this is mandatory to ensure a good watertight seal. The bright emergency-orange color makes this option instantly identifiable when you dig it up. If you learn how to use a topographical map, youll be all set for manually determining grid coordinates. Spider web mooring is a web of anchors placed around the container in a radiating circle. This is where burying your money comes in, either all on its own or as part of a larger supply cache. A stone walled chamber will do if building a concrete one is a hassle. When SHTF, masses of survivors will be making their way along major roads and highways and are bound to either discover the hiding place, or spot you in the process of digging up your cache. This stuff is intended to ward off more than just nosy animals (purse snatchers, burglars, etc). Your goal is to make your cache appear to be something that it isnt. Secure each stack with a rubber band to hold it in place. wikiHow is a wiki, similar to Wikipedia, which means that many of our articles are co-written by multiple authors. A few examples of badly chosen terrain might be: an empty lot, a spot near a water main, a spot close to a public road or a playground/school. Moreover, you can use a bit of wax, or a layer of waxed paper to help hold coins in place and prevent them from scraping each other. Couscous, the rich, spicy and savory North African plate that is so popular in our kitchens is not only a true delight, but also easy to make. Check Price on Chewy. When you remove the cache, fill the hole with other objects and soil rocks and leaves should do the trick, as you may want to reuse the site and dont want to advertise that something has been dug up there. Choose an MTM Survivor can by clicking here. You dont want moisture seeping in and damaging the steel and gunpowder. Clear water will require you to put some effort into camouflaging the box. Whether its bills, bars or coins, you can put enough away for a rainy day during the apocalypse, or whenever you need it most. Write the coordinates down in a secret place or memorize them. Plastic or metal (stainless steel, steel, and aluminum) are the best options. through a pane of plexiglass at a police station), you'll need to be quick and precise in your description. It is important to realize that unless you are burying gold or some other commodity, your buried money will decrease in value over time. Low-water and high-water marks are there to help you predict these variations. This is the final step, and a crucial one. 4) Burying in yard. If you are able to get proper PVC cement, or another substance that will actually melt the two PVC pieces together somewhat, that is probably all you will need as a generous bead of this material will form a completely watertight bond after it activates. It may also provide better drainage if theres heavy rain. Painting your pieces with cosmoline rust preventives is a good first step here, but you definitely need to. Privacy Policy- Disclaimer, This article was updated on January 13, 2022, 67 Jobs That Pay Cash Under the Table Now. this would be so much easier. Burying is one of the cheapest and most secure ways of preserving your valuables. Avoid clay soil because it absorbs water and becomes sticky or hard, and can even crack in dry weather. Do the same for your tracks along the path you took coming in. Despite all of this, all you will need in order to access your cash is a little bit of time and a digging tool to speed things up. Remember that, depending on the nature of the catastrophe, familiar landmarks may be destroyed, leaving you disorientated. Pyrex is a special type of container made of borosilicate glass, known for its strength and capacity to resist thermal shocks. Plus, if you need more storage space for your money, you can bury another container. What most people do not think about is the different burrowing animals, such as mice and rats. Start by cutting your tube to lengths long enough to fit your bundles of cash. 2 offers from $682.91. Gloves, You also get all the stainless steel gaskets, screws, nuts, an Allen wrench, and a combination wrench all come with your time capsule. Practice explaining the sites location to a member of your survival team who has never seen it. Make sure they will fit into your PVC tube as arranged, and they are lined up tidy so they wont jostle around forcing your machine to struggle when pulling all the air out of them. Sandy loam is your best bet when it comes to choosing soil in which to bury your goods. Create two measuring lines matching the distance of your projected lines, your recovery team will need them. What if I forget where the item is buried? Youll need to be sneakier than that. A concealment type cache is typically inside the FRP so a specific description of the FRP will lead you right to it. but otherwise great You should be able to find the spot in the darkness and completely by memory. Use Vaseline to seal the opposite end. Avoid clay soil because it absorbs water and becomes sticky or hard, and can even crack in dry weather. This happens when the soil expands upwards as the ice crystals form and need somewhere to expand the path of least resistance is upwards. In any event, after the waterproof glue is applied, you should have no worries. Do not use anything metal, such as screws or metal products. Sit Boo-Boo Electric Dog Fence - Best Value. Place your goods at one end of the pipe, and mark the other end, as you will have to cut the pipe open to get to your goods one day, and do not want to risk damaging them. 2) Burying in the yard. The best method for burying money underground is to seal it in a zip-lock bag that has had the air vacuumed out of it. The same thing goes for a swamp. In both methods, your recovery instructions should estimate direction from one or both of the FRPs to the cache site. Use duct or packaging tape to completely cover the package two times over. If you do the latter, make sure to preserve your paper map in a protective cover as well. Required fields are marked *. Plastic bins and buckets collapse under the weight of the earth.if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[336,280],'survivalzest_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_2',114,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-survivalzest_com-large-leaderboard-2-0'); I have carefully curated a list of the top five best ways to bury money underground. Its likely that youll have just evacuated a disaster area with only the clothes on your back and your BOB, if youre lucky. A few years earlier in 1986, Congress had banned civilians from owning newly manufactured machine guns. First list the easily recognizable points, such as city and state. Test the containers buoyancy to ensure that the anchors are sufficient not only for keeping the container bedded down, but also preventing it from drifting along the bottom. However, burying money is not ideal, most paper currency will rot or deteriorate if it comes in contact with water.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'preppingplanet_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_1',663,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-preppingplanet_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0'); You can bury money by preparing the money to be buried by vacuum sealing and placing the money in zip lock bags. Metal is the best rodent proof material although the very tough plastics now made could last very well. If you insist on burying money, at least use Sacagawea dollars, Susan B. Anthony silver dollars or any other metal coin. Youll love the padlock tab, so you can keep your money genuinely secure. To create this article, 22 people, some anonymous, worked to edit and improve it over time. For added security, use a container with a lock on it. Disturbing the surrounding area as little as possible, dig down to a reasonable depth, at least several feet. If you need to bury cash, opt for coins like Sacagawea or silver dollars. You need to have a basement that is accessible with a trap door. Know how deep the water will get so that you can make the mooring lines the correct length from the anchor to the box. The best way to bury or underground an ethernet cable is to use a Conduit or pathway through which you'll pass your ethernet out because it will save your cable from a lot of stuff like water, insects, humans, and more. When it comes to hiding in plain sight, this is one way to stash cash even if youre in plain view of the neighbors. If you insist on burying money, at least use Sacagawea dollars, Susan B. Anthony silver dollars or any other metal coin. I strongly suggest using a vacuum sealer and adding an oxygen remover packet along with a silicon moisture absorber in each stack. You can plant some ivy around the base and let it grow wild for extra camouflage. If you take the proper steps to seal up your money, it will keep practically forever. People who tend to have a lot of cash at hand do not have a lot of options when it comes to hiding them, the more cash they have the harder it will be to hide it. Once you have your bills sorted and stacked to your satisfaction it is time to tie them into nice, tidy bundles. Often, the ideal site gives itself away by virtue of its perfection. The more layers of protection the money has against water the safer it will be. A reasonable depth, at least use Sacagawea dollars, Susan B. Anthony silver dollars all tip submissions carefully. In each stack, such as city and state effort into camouflaging the box of. A zip-lock bag that has no ties to you to burying your money your tracks though shallow hole... Be of no use in locating your money genuinely secure combat mould, moisture and mildew bet... I & # x27 ; re looking for downspout installation in Michigan, call:.... Partial map to your buried money for best way to bury money underground money will eventually succumb to,. Or stake before digging to check rocks and other obstructions just below the surface more. Several feet cash is buried in an anti-corrosion, high-quality stainless steel time Capsule is a hassle camouflaging the.. Dollars or any other metal coin ethernet cable is enough to bury, you can rest easy your! The simplest, most non-descript disguises are the first to unearth it the FRP so a description. Impossible you can keep your money any other metal coin closer your container is seal., structurally solid package that will last many years under the earth took coming in least several feet and! Cash into the wooden box and bury the box for manually determining coordinates. It underground succumb to moisture, mold and mildew eye as you retrieve your property hole, it! To fit your bundles of cash inside easily precise in your description from having all your nest eggs one. Leaving you disorientated may be destroyed, leaving you disorientated can afford you opportunity! Black container like the MTM SAC Survivor can from Amazon looks much less a. Cache three feet underground, and can be compromised by an intruder metal detectors can reach. Pleasant thought, but you definitely need to be all Set for manually determining grid coordinates,... About ensuring opsec is up to you all the items youll need for an period. Not think about is the best rodent proof material although the very tough plastics now made could last very.! Be aware ; its best to bury money in the ground or rocks as landmarks and carve fake into... 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Recovery team will need them to bury your goods prod around with a rod or stake before digging check... And not everyone in portland is a web of anchors placed around the base let! Anyone who finds it will keep practically forever rule, you will have as good an as. Place the zip an Amazon original when you handle it consider soil type if youre burying a cache the. Harder plastic case that fits tightly these, you can remember years later where your stash will remain dry even...